I think the first chapter is sometimes the most important of the entire book. The Trial starts out very ominous. There are definitely a lot of questions to be answered as you've pointed out. I'm not exactly sure of what is going on with the people watching him in the next house. Doesn't it seem like a play though, because of this "audience"?
The extra long paragraphs are hard to get through. I love the style of dialog- more natural.
I think the landlady knows more than she is letting on, very shifty if you ask me. The three men act towards Josef as if everything is normal and he should just go along with it. Very intriguing.
I think I'm going to like this one!
Jun 28, 2008
Jun 27, 2008
The Trial - Chapter 1
The first chapter does a fantastic job of introducing the characters and making you interested in the story. Why is Josef K. being arrested? If he is arrested then why is he not taken into custody and formally charged with something? Who is behind this?
Is Josef K. guilty of anything? The way that he answered the inspector's question as to whether or not he was greatly surprised by the morning's event was quite odd. He has an air of superiority about him and at first thought that this all could be a farce.
The inspector told K. that he should think less about us and what is going to happen to you and think more about yourself. He also told him he should talk less.
Do the 3 men from the bank know more about the situation? What about the old man and woman and the man with the goatee watching though the window; are they curious by-standers or do they have some interest in the situation? What about Frau Grubach - the line about her not looking as if she felt any particular sense of guilt - is that a foreshadow that perhaps she should look as if she felt guilty?
What do you think so far? Did you see what I meant about the paragraphs?
I listened to the first few chapters while driving but I am going back and reading it as well. I realize that I miss a lot by just listening to the story. Especially in a story like Wise Blood, I would have missed the dialectal way in which it was written.
Is Josef K. guilty of anything? The way that he answered the inspector's question as to whether or not he was greatly surprised by the morning's event was quite odd. He has an air of superiority about him and at first thought that this all could be a farce.
The inspector told K. that he should think less about us and what is going to happen to you and think more about yourself. He also told him he should talk less.
Do the 3 men from the bank know more about the situation? What about the old man and woman and the man with the goatee watching though the window; are they curious by-standers or do they have some interest in the situation? What about Frau Grubach - the line about her not looking as if she felt any particular sense of guilt - is that a foreshadow that perhaps she should look as if she felt guilty?
What do you think so far? Did you see what I meant about the paragraphs?
I listened to the first few chapters while driving but I am going back and reading it as well. I realize that I miss a lot by just listening to the story. Especially in a story like Wise Blood, I would have missed the dialectal way in which it was written.
Jun 26, 2008
Final Thoughts
I would say that police officers are suppose to be the "enforcers" of society. Perhaps we could consider them the "preachers" in everyday life. The ones who are guiding us and protecting us in a way. I think this would make sense then (if we could stretch it that far). However, they too are human and make just as many mistakes as the average person. The only thing that gives them authority (besides many times a weapon, like the Bible) is that a group of people decided collectively to recognize them as such.
I am also really glad that I was not brought up in a house full of religious fanatics. Don't get me wrong- I think religion can be a great thing. Sometimes some people take things a little too far or too seriously (can we say FLDS?). I wonder all the time at how individuals can go along with a crowd with no second thought to what they are going along with. Just because something makes sense for one person does not make it okay for everyone else. This world is not black and white- maybe that is what I found so intriquing about this book, nothing made sense.
Be that as it may I am looking forward to reading any book that might question religious values such as this one has!
I am also really glad that I was not brought up in a house full of religious fanatics. Don't get me wrong- I think religion can be a great thing. Sometimes some people take things a little too far or too seriously (can we say FLDS?). I wonder all the time at how individuals can go along with a crowd with no second thought to what they are going along with. Just because something makes sense for one person does not make it okay for everyone else. This world is not black and white- maybe that is what I found so intriquing about this book, nothing made sense.
Be that as it may I am looking forward to reading any book that might question religious values such as this one has!
Jun 25, 2008
Final thoughts
"I'm going to found the church of Christ without Christ, where the lame don't walk and the blind don't see and what's dead stays that way." Haze Motes
The murder of Haze's twin was handled so matter of factly that when I read it I wondered if it had indeed happened. Especially because it is never mentioned again, but that could be because the voice that the story is being told in changes. It does appear that he saw the man as a fraud but as he was his "twin" it was a reflection of himself so ultimately he saw that he was a fraud.
Do you think Haze is schizophrenic? I really can't decide what his illness he has.
I loved the part where Sabbath tells of the letters she wrote to the newspaper for advice. She did have a difficult life and I did not see easier times in her future.
It was interesting to me that it was a police officer who pushed his car off the ledge, this act alone sent Haze into his decline. Then it was another police officer who found him and hit him with the billy club that ended his life. Any subliminal message about cops here?
I am grateful for my religious upbringing, I did not have to endure all of the mental trauma that bible-thumpers inflict upon their followers. Sin, salvation, and redemption are ideas that are foreign to me and I cannot understand how intelligent people can believe without questioning. Guilt is enough punishment, it is so difficult to comprehend the self torture that Haze inflicts upon himself.
This book was difficult for me to get excited about reading. It's not that the characters weren't interesting because they are, I just didn't care about them enough to want to know what was going to happen next.
I imagine that there will be several books on the list that have strong religious overtones as religion plays such a pivotal role in many peoples lives.
The murder of Haze's twin was handled so matter of factly that when I read it I wondered if it had indeed happened. Especially because it is never mentioned again, but that could be because the voice that the story is being told in changes. It does appear that he saw the man as a fraud but as he was his "twin" it was a reflection of himself so ultimately he saw that he was a fraud.
Do you think Haze is schizophrenic? I really can't decide what his illness he has.
I loved the part where Sabbath tells of the letters she wrote to the newspaper for advice. She did have a difficult life and I did not see easier times in her future.
It was interesting to me that it was a police officer who pushed his car off the ledge, this act alone sent Haze into his decline. Then it was another police officer who found him and hit him with the billy club that ended his life. Any subliminal message about cops here?
I am grateful for my religious upbringing, I did not have to endure all of the mental trauma that bible-thumpers inflict upon their followers. Sin, salvation, and redemption are ideas that are foreign to me and I cannot understand how intelligent people can believe without questioning. Guilt is enough punishment, it is so difficult to comprehend the self torture that Haze inflicts upon himself.
This book was difficult for me to get excited about reading. It's not that the characters weren't interesting because they are, I just didn't care about them enough to want to know what was going to happen next.
I imagine that there will be several books on the list that have strong religious overtones as religion plays such a pivotal role in many peoples lives.
May Contain Spoilers- The End
I think we are on the same page regarding the characters of this book. I felt sympathy for all of the characters except Enoch and Onnie Jay. It seemed that they were all products of their environments- just trying to survive.
Chapter 10: This quote was on of my favorites (there were a lot of quotable lines in this particular book):
Chapter 11: Have you figured out what illness Haze is suffering from? I think this chapter starts to show how sick he really is. Sabbath uses this to her advantage, what a sad life she has. How appropriate that Enoch would stand in a line of children to see the man in the Gorilla suit. Weird. He has such an odd obsession with animals.
Chapter 13: This was the most disturbing chapter for me. The description of how Haze takes down his twin is very forthright and almost without emotion. Do you see this as a metaphor for Haze really wanting to end his own life, by killing someone who is representing him in physical form? I agree that this is not the event that ends Haze's life, but rather the cop pushing his car into the embankment.
Final thoughts: I found Wise Blood mostly depressing and a little confusing. I agree that most of the characters were searching for acceptance. How sad and lonely they all were. I was not expecting the ending- which I liked, because of the unpredictability. Looking forward to next months novel!
Chapter 10: This quote was on of my favorites (there were a lot of quotable lines in this particular book):
"You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got."
This is the chapter that Haze meets the man who is his "twin". I think Haze finally takes a look at himself through this stranger and doesn't like what he sees.
Chapter 11: Have you figured out what illness Haze is suffering from? I think this chapter starts to show how sick he really is. Sabbath uses this to her advantage, what a sad life she has. How appropriate that Enoch would stand in a line of children to see the man in the Gorilla suit. Weird. He has such an odd obsession with animals.
Chapter 13: This was the most disturbing chapter for me. The description of how Haze takes down his twin is very forthright and almost without emotion. Do you see this as a metaphor for Haze really wanting to end his own life, by killing someone who is representing him in physical form? I agree that this is not the event that ends Haze's life, but rather the cop pushing his car into the embankment.
Final thoughts: I found Wise Blood mostly depressing and a little confusing. I agree that most of the characters were searching for acceptance. How sad and lonely they all were. I was not expecting the ending- which I liked, because of the unpredictability. Looking forward to next months novel!
Jun 24, 2008
Good link for further information regarding Wise Blood
http://www.freebooknotes.com/wiki/Wise_Blood
Now that I completed the book I found this great site that helped me to interpret it correctly. I don't feel too bad about our interpretations however. 98 books to go.
Now that I completed the book I found this great site that helped me to interpret it correctly. I don't feel too bad about our interpretations however. 98 books to go.
Done
I am finished.
Character summary - (my deductions, please feel free to add your opinions or criticisms)
Asa Hawks - he like Onnie Jay Holy were preachers for convenience sake. They used God and Jesus to eke out a living and get by in life. Although they wanted the world to see them as holy and saved it was only a con.
Sabbath Lily Hawks - she is just a young girl who wants to belong to someone and be loved. Why else would she cradle the new jesus that Enoch brings to Haze? She throws herself at Haze to try and seduce him so she can stay since her fraud of a father is ready to leave.
Enoch Emery - In the end he becomes that which he despises. I see it the same way in people who have homosexual tendencies but don't want to accept them and are abusive to those who are gay. It is like they are fighting against something they cannot control. I see this trait in Haze as well. I am not saying that he is gay. The quote that you provided does seem to apply to Enoch's character.
Haze - he wants to deny Jesus but in the end he is the only one who is tormented by him. Always mistaken for a preacher throughout the book he was destined to become one. Although he tried to fight it and speak out against it but the belief was too deep. He is punishing himself for his sins in unimaginable ways but in the end he could not escape his fate.
The Landlady all of the sudden became a main character, both Hawk's and Enoch are out of the picture entirely. Her initial motivation was money and greed. She was good to take care of him but had ulterior motives.
This book is filled with interesting characters that are not predictable or easy to understand.
I like the idea you mentioned of his car being his vehicle to heaven. He mentioned quite often that his vehicle would take him wherever he wanted to go and no one would agree that he had a good vehicle. Once the vehicle was pushed over the edge it was as if he were too. He went on a downward spiral after he lost his way out.
Other than Asa and Haze most of the main character were starved for acceptance, connection and belonging. Which is funny since when I think of "preachers" I imagine that is what they would want as well.
We started the movie over the weekend and they changed Sabbath's age to 17. I didn't imagine the shrunken man quite the way they have it in the movie.
Looking forward to your interpretation/comments.
Character summary - (my deductions, please feel free to add your opinions or criticisms)
Asa Hawks - he like Onnie Jay Holy were preachers for convenience sake. They used God and Jesus to eke out a living and get by in life. Although they wanted the world to see them as holy and saved it was only a con.
Sabbath Lily Hawks - she is just a young girl who wants to belong to someone and be loved. Why else would she cradle the new jesus that Enoch brings to Haze? She throws herself at Haze to try and seduce him so she can stay since her fraud of a father is ready to leave.
Enoch Emery - In the end he becomes that which he despises. I see it the same way in people who have homosexual tendencies but don't want to accept them and are abusive to those who are gay. It is like they are fighting against something they cannot control. I see this trait in Haze as well. I am not saying that he is gay. The quote that you provided does seem to apply to Enoch's character.
Haze - he wants to deny Jesus but in the end he is the only one who is tormented by him. Always mistaken for a preacher throughout the book he was destined to become one. Although he tried to fight it and speak out against it but the belief was too deep. He is punishing himself for his sins in unimaginable ways but in the end he could not escape his fate.
The Landlady all of the sudden became a main character, both Hawk's and Enoch are out of the picture entirely. Her initial motivation was money and greed. She was good to take care of him but had ulterior motives.
This book is filled with interesting characters that are not predictable or easy to understand.
I like the idea you mentioned of his car being his vehicle to heaven. He mentioned quite often that his vehicle would take him wherever he wanted to go and no one would agree that he had a good vehicle. Once the vehicle was pushed over the edge it was as if he were too. He went on a downward spiral after he lost his way out.
Other than Asa and Haze most of the main character were starved for acceptance, connection and belonging. Which is funny since when I think of "preachers" I imagine that is what they would want as well.
We started the movie over the weekend and they changed Sabbath's age to 17. I didn't imagine the shrunken man quite the way they have it in the movie.
Looking forward to your interpretation/comments.
Jun 20, 2008
A Quote-
"Free will does not mean one will, but many wills conflicting in one man."
-Flannery O'Connor
Do you think this explains Enoch a little better?
It's Just Getting Good.
I had never before thought about the clouds as a symbol of God. That is a really nice observation on your part, and I'm glad that you brought it to my attention.
It seems to me that all of the conversations Haze has (no matter who is on the other end) he is really just talking to himself. It is almost as if he can't distinguish between his person and everyone else. Does that make sense? Like he is unaware of anyone else- just himself. This idea shows up in a future chapter.
Chapter 8: Enoch is certainly a hard character to pin down. He definitely has a strange connection to animals- and other human beings for that matter! Enoch seems to have no other goal in life than self-gratification. Whatever makes "Enoch" happy is always first priority. It doesn't seem to me that he has any sense of right or wrong- just his blood? Why do you think that he is so adamant about getting that stupid mummy thing? It still doesn't make sense to me.
Haze seems to be running from something, even though the only thing he has to run from is religion/God. Is he over judgemental? Not really a good quality in someone who is supposed to be a "preacher".
It seems to me that all of the conversations Haze has (no matter who is on the other end) he is really just talking to himself. It is almost as if he can't distinguish between his person and everyone else. Does that make sense? Like he is unaware of anyone else- just himself. This idea shows up in a future chapter.
Chapter 8: Enoch is certainly a hard character to pin down. He definitely has a strange connection to animals- and other human beings for that matter! Enoch seems to have no other goal in life than self-gratification. Whatever makes "Enoch" happy is always first priority. It doesn't seem to me that he has any sense of right or wrong- just his blood? Why do you think that he is so adamant about getting that stupid mummy thing? It still doesn't make sense to me.
Haze seems to be running from something, even though the only thing he has to run from is religion/God. Is he over judgemental? Not really a good quality in someone who is supposed to be a "preacher".
Ch. 7 & 8
I have a bunch of random ideas and thoughts that I jotted down while I was reading. They aren't exactly complete but are just some observations.
When Haze and Sabbath Hawks were together the author mentions the cloud in the sky a couple of times and also at the end of the chapter. I felt that maybe this cloud was "God"watching over them. At the end of the chapter the cloud turned into a bird and headed the opposite direction. Are Haze and Sabbath going away from God and enlightenment?
When Haze has conversations with Sabbath they don't exactly have proper dialogue with each other and it's like they are carrying on their own conversation with themselves almost. Like when she was explaining that she was a bastard, Haze was trying to set it right in his mind without hearing anything else she was saying. He was working out in his head how her father blinded himself, I think that he wondered if the story is really true.
What did you think about the story she tells him about the girl that no one wanted? I thought it was about her. I pictured that because as she mentioned her mom died at childbirth that she was being raised by her grandmother who went crazy and hanged herself which is why she is now with her Dad but looking to move on with someone else.
It is interesting that Haze has his mind set to seduce her but when she flirts with him he does not reciprocate at all.
Chapter 8 - Enoch
I have many questions about this character.
Who is his daddy? Is he possessed? What the hell is wrong with him? He seems to be doing things that he can't control, because of his blood.
If he hates animals to the degree that he does, why would he work at the zoo? Also that whole crazy story about the moose in the frame.
I am thinking that his daddy's purse is going to come up again somewhere.
Haze's church hasn't quite had all of the details worked out yet. His preaching to me seems like double talk. It's not clear what his message is or at least to me. Why would he be looking for a new jesus to represent his church if this is supposed to be the Church without Christ?
I can see now where the body is coming in to play again. This should be interesting. Looking forward to your comments.
When Haze and Sabbath Hawks were together the author mentions the cloud in the sky a couple of times and also at the end of the chapter. I felt that maybe this cloud was "God"watching over them. At the end of the chapter the cloud turned into a bird and headed the opposite direction. Are Haze and Sabbath going away from God and enlightenment?
When Haze has conversations with Sabbath they don't exactly have proper dialogue with each other and it's like they are carrying on their own conversation with themselves almost. Like when she was explaining that she was a bastard, Haze was trying to set it right in his mind without hearing anything else she was saying. He was working out in his head how her father blinded himself, I think that he wondered if the story is really true.
What did you think about the story she tells him about the girl that no one wanted? I thought it was about her. I pictured that because as she mentioned her mom died at childbirth that she was being raised by her grandmother who went crazy and hanged herself which is why she is now with her Dad but looking to move on with someone else.
It is interesting that Haze has his mind set to seduce her but when she flirts with him he does not reciprocate at all.
Chapter 8 - Enoch
I have many questions about this character.
Who is his daddy? Is he possessed? What the hell is wrong with him? He seems to be doing things that he can't control, because of his blood.
If he hates animals to the degree that he does, why would he work at the zoo? Also that whole crazy story about the moose in the frame.
I am thinking that his daddy's purse is going to come up again somewhere.
Haze's church hasn't quite had all of the details worked out yet. His preaching to me seems like double talk. It's not clear what his message is or at least to me. Why would he be looking for a new jesus to represent his church if this is supposed to be the Church without Christ?
I can see now where the body is coming in to play again. This should be interesting. Looking forward to your comments.
Jun 18, 2008
Strange is right!
I'm so glad that you also think Enoch is strange. I think in some way his character is meant to be comical, but I don't see it. He is just unimaginable!
Chapter 5: Haze is not nice to anyone and yes he did leave Enoch in the park bleeding! Something I've been noticing is the way Haze is not nice to ANYONE. Even people who are trying to help him- he is very stuck-up and rude to. Maybe he is afraid of getting close to anyone for fear they might die. This might be a reason for him preaching against Christ. The only thing I can think is that the woman and her children are representing purity or innocence? The little person in the case will come back in a future chapter- really creepy if you ask me.
Chapter 6: I like what you interpreted about the gas stations and hearing the "truth". The car in this book also is mentioned a lot. I know that Christians believe that in heaven your soul is given a "vehicle". Do you think that possibly his broken old junky car could be a representation of how he views his body? I'm never sure either if maybe I'm reading too much into things. Let me know what you think. I just read the next two chapters and even stranger things are happening. I can't wait to discuss these with you.
Also- I'm glad you posted your thoughts, because until today I had not noticed your previous comments attached to my posts. HaHa. So I thought you either were not getting my emails or something, because there was no response. I was thinking how unlike Denise that was- it was. What a relief!!
Chapter 5: Haze is not nice to anyone and yes he did leave Enoch in the park bleeding! Something I've been noticing is the way Haze is not nice to ANYONE. Even people who are trying to help him- he is very stuck-up and rude to. Maybe he is afraid of getting close to anyone for fear they might die. This might be a reason for him preaching against Christ. The only thing I can think is that the woman and her children are representing purity or innocence? The little person in the case will come back in a future chapter- really creepy if you ask me.
Chapter 6: I like what you interpreted about the gas stations and hearing the "truth". The car in this book also is mentioned a lot. I know that Christians believe that in heaven your soul is given a "vehicle". Do you think that possibly his broken old junky car could be a representation of how he views his body? I'm never sure either if maybe I'm reading too much into things. Let me know what you think. I just read the next two chapters and even stranger things are happening. I can't wait to discuss these with you.
Also- I'm glad you posted your thoughts, because until today I had not noticed your previous comments attached to my posts. HaHa. So I thought you either were not getting my emails or something, because there was no response. I was thinking how unlike Denise that was- it was. What a relief!!
Jun 17, 2008
Chapters 4, 5 and 6
There are definitely some interesting characters in this book. None that I can relate to or would want to hang out with but true oddballs.
Chapter 4 - (Haze buying the car)
Like we had already discussed the kid at the car lot with turrets syndrome was a hoot. I noticed on page 70 a reference to 666 which is a sign of the devil. She was only referring to posts labeled 666 so I wasn't sure if it was a reference that he was on the road to hell or if it is just a road sign.
I thought that the sign he sees written on the boulder "WOE TO THE BLASPHEMER AND WHOREMONGER! WILL HELL SWALLOW YOU UP? Jesus Saves spoke directly to him and his situation.
Chapter 5 - (Enoch & the thing in the park)
Enoch - wow! Mr. Wise Blood himself is definitely a strange character. OCD, woman hater?, peeping Tom, and animal hater just to name a few quirks. I am curious as to why he despises the animals with such ferocity. The waitress despised him to the same degree and it didn't sound like the guard at the museum like him much either.
What role do the woman and her two children from the pool and the museum play? Was the body at the museum really important? Did Haze really hit Enoch in the head with a rock and leave him there?
Chapter 6 - (Haze preaching and the blind man)
You wonder what has happened to Haze in his life for him to be so obsessed about proclaiming to people all that he does against Jesus and how he does not believe. Who is he trying to convince when he makes his statements to others about not believing and being clean? It seems whenever he makes these statements to the strangers that they always act with hostility which I can see that I would as well. To me it's like, "who asked you and why are you telling me this?"
What is the attraction that Haze has to the "blind" man and his daughter? I agree that it is curious why he is so driven to preach. Why would the "blind" man's daughter want to leave him and want to go with Haze? It doesn't seem right to me that Haze would want to seduce her, isn't she only 15 or so?
At the end of the chapter Haze takes his car to be serviced. The first station tells him that it cannot be fixed so he leaves and takes it to another shop. The next station's mechanic tells him that he can fix it overnight and that it's a good car put together with good materials so Haze believes that he is honest and leaves it with him. I am thinking that this is foreshadowing something in the book or in life. If you don't like what someone tells you even if it is the truth you keep looking until you find someone who will tell you what you want to hear?
I never know if I am interpreting things correctly or not. Let me know what you think. I have many more questions than answers about the motivations of the characters.
Chapter 4 - (Haze buying the car)
Like we had already discussed the kid at the car lot with turrets syndrome was a hoot. I noticed on page 70 a reference to 666 which is a sign of the devil. She was only referring to posts labeled 666 so I wasn't sure if it was a reference that he was on the road to hell or if it is just a road sign.
I thought that the sign he sees written on the boulder "WOE TO THE BLASPHEMER AND WHOREMONGER! WILL HELL SWALLOW YOU UP? Jesus Saves spoke directly to him and his situation.
Chapter 5 - (Enoch & the thing in the park)
Enoch - wow! Mr. Wise Blood himself is definitely a strange character. OCD, woman hater?, peeping Tom, and animal hater just to name a few quirks. I am curious as to why he despises the animals with such ferocity. The waitress despised him to the same degree and it didn't sound like the guard at the museum like him much either.
What role do the woman and her two children from the pool and the museum play? Was the body at the museum really important? Did Haze really hit Enoch in the head with a rock and leave him there?
Chapter 6 - (Haze preaching and the blind man)
You wonder what has happened to Haze in his life for him to be so obsessed about proclaiming to people all that he does against Jesus and how he does not believe. Who is he trying to convince when he makes his statements to others about not believing and being clean? It seems whenever he makes these statements to the strangers that they always act with hostility which I can see that I would as well. To me it's like, "who asked you and why are you telling me this?"
What is the attraction that Haze has to the "blind" man and his daughter? I agree that it is curious why he is so driven to preach. Why would the "blind" man's daughter want to leave him and want to go with Haze? It doesn't seem right to me that Haze would want to seduce her, isn't she only 15 or so?
At the end of the chapter Haze takes his car to be serviced. The first station tells him that it cannot be fixed so he leaves and takes it to another shop. The next station's mechanic tells him that he can fix it overnight and that it's a good car put together with good materials so Haze believes that he is honest and leaves it with him. I am thinking that this is foreshadowing something in the book or in life. If you don't like what someone tells you even if it is the truth you keep looking until you find someone who will tell you what you want to hear?
I never know if I am interpreting things correctly or not. Let me know what you think. I have many more questions than answers about the motivations of the characters.
Jun 12, 2008
Curious
I am still trying to understand the motivation behind Haze becoming a preacher "again". What does he see in the Blindman, and is he trying to prove a point? I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this. Also- ever since you mentioned the animal references I've been noticing them more. Thank you.
Jun 4, 2008
First Thoughts
My first thoughts on this book are slightly depressing. Do you think that Hazel has stopped believing in anything because everyone in his family has died? I am feeling very sympathetic for him.
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